Honda Warranty Problems!

[CAC]

Does anyone know how to dispute a claim for warranty issues that have been denied? My left trunk hinge broke, and my rear speaker covers were so loose that I hit a bump the left one fell off. I was denied warranty coverage. Reason given to me over the phone was that the trunk hinge broke due to overloading. I assure you it did not. They said that the speaker covers are part of a 3 yr audio system warranty. I say that the covers are attached to the bike and are not part of any Audio system. This is all well and good, but it got back to me from my dealer that the rep told him on my last claim for the final drive that was going to be the last one due to the amount of miles! Yes I ride a lot, I have over 238,000 miles in just over 6 years, but I bought the goldwing because of the warranty, knowing how much I'd be riding. Here is the problem. I have asked for someone to put in writing why I was denied, they said they would not do that. I have asked them to have the Rep call me and he hasn't called and it's been over a week. What are my avenues for dispute? The above claims may be correctly denied, but I have some other issues that I am saving for winter, i.e. heated seat and grips aren't working or working intermittently and some of my buttons are starting to not work. The tech line that I called said that's it, there is nowhere else to go and they can't override the reps decision. But I can tell you that the service guy was so confused on the speaker covers and what was going on that I don't trust he conveyed it to the rep correctly. It's way to complicated for me to type. I find it hard to believe that the buck stops here and that I have no recourse, especially since the rep said I had too many miles so I would be denied on future claims I used the analogy, what if I got caught kissing the reps wife, does he has the ultimate say and I just have to live with it? Any phone # or avenue to pursue this would be appreciated.

P.S. It is very hard for me to put these events on here through typing and have it make sense.

[remphoto]

A lot depends on your dealer and how much they will go to bat for you. There is always the legal route, too, but that gets pricey. A bit of a long shot but you might also want to file a complaint with your state attorney general's office and the Federal Trade Commisson. Would seem you have a good case of false and deceptive advertising because violation of the the advertised unlimited mileage warranty.

[DeadendBill]

Almost sounds like a personal denial to me. Contact an attorney and see if he has an interest in taking it on via contingency. I agree with remphoto, sounds like deceptive advertising, check the wording in the contract....

[hparsons]

A lot of people think there's nothing between not involving an attorney, and a full blown lawsuit. I was in much the same situation as you (involving the hinge problem). I was really prepared to just bit the bullet and buy the part and fix it myself, but the Honda rep ticked me off with his nonsense. I finally was mad enough that I demanded they send me an explanation, in writing, as to why my bike wasn't being covered under warranty. He said they have no such mechanism, and I asked for an address so my attorney could send a demand letter (it wasn't an empty threat, my wife works for an attorney). An attorney will typically be willing to write a demand letter for a pretty reasonable price (they really don't even do the work themselves, they have a secretary or a paralegal - like mi sposa, write it up, and they sign it). Of course, if it's totally a bluff, you could be left holding the bag, finanically and pride-wise, but in my case, it got their attention.

He (the Honda rep) asked if he could present it to his supervisor again. He then called me back the next day, and apologized, and said that he had been to short, and was working on seeing if he could resolve it. Three days later, (the amount of time he asked for) he called back and asked me to send photos. I did, and he almost immediately called back and said it would be covered.

I think the key is persistence more than anything else.

[CAC]

I am not able to even speak to the rep, they won't give me his #, so I told them to have him call me, so far nothing. I found out that the speaker covers that they said were part of the audio system, are actually listed as armrests. Its down to the principle of it now, I am also sure that the service guy didn't try real hard.

[Kit Carson]

Beyond the fact that unlimited mileage warranty is self supporting in its definition, when you get into these things some of it is interpretation by those who conduct the service and repair.

Speaker covers could well be called part of the audio system, however a trunk hinge is not and is a known problem. As are the silly way the looped wires in that area are well known to break inside the insulation.

A warranty is a good thing for major problems and can save a few thousand bucks, but small things sometimes are not worth the hassle. You might try a different dealer, but if it goes nowhere, and if you go some legal route, two years later your trunk hinge will still be busted and all you have is a pocket full of mush. Lol!

Personally I would just fix those two items myself as they are minor fixes. Certainly not worth the aggravation or the fight for the principle of things unless you just want to.

Your problems with the heat system is most likely your left grip, when it works erratic or intermittent, most of the time it is that left grip, it is just a plastic wrap with a bonded set of conductors and it gets a gap in it that separates as it warms up, and there goes your heat. This also does effect the seat and all other things due to the way it is constructed.

Long ago I was trying to help another rider out with a problem with ABS brakes and was not just quite sure about the ohm reading for the modulator motors and I called Honda for advice. They told me they do not give out technical advice to any owner and to go speak with a dealer. I suppose they do that to protect themselves from the public.

Bottom line, simply not worth the hassle for small things, if the transmission was shelled out, yea that would be worth the fight. But even that might take forever to win.

Kit

[hparsons]

I am not able to even speak to the rep, they won't give me his #, so I told them to have him call me, so far nothing. I found out that the speaker covers that they said were part of the audio system, are actually listed as armrests. Its down to the principle of it now, I am also sure that the service guy didn't try real hard.

Again, just speaking on how I handled my situation, which is still not yet fully resolved (though they've agreed to cover it under warranty, I can't drop it off for repairs until after Labor Day). I made it a point to take notes (once I saw that I was having some problems). Early on, the rep at the Mother Honda number said he would call me back by the end of the week, and he did not. After that, I made it a point to get a specific day on which I could "start worrying about you calling back" every single time I talked to him.

Were I in your position right now, I would call the Honda customer service number - (866) 784-1870, explain the situation, and ask to speak to a rep. They should ask you your VIN number, if they haven't already (so they can open a case) and give you the first name of a rep. I would be making notes of all of this as I did it. Ask the name of every one you speak to. Write down the name. Ask the name of the rep that is supposed to call you back. Ask when you can expect a call back. Write all of that down. If you do not get a call back in the time frame promised, call back and tell them that.

Persistence and detail are the key (in my opinion). Might be worth noting my "experience" took almost 2 months from the time I first went to the dealership until Mother Honda agreed to fix the issue.

[jmohme]

A lot of people think there's nothing between not involving an attorney, and a full blown lawsuit. I was in much the same situation as you (involving the hinge problem). I was really prepared to just bit the bullet and buy the part and fix it myself, but the Honda rep ticked me off with his nonsense. I finally was mad enough that I demanded they send me an explanation, in writing, as to why my bike wasn't being covered under warranty. He said they have no such mechanism, and I asked for an address so my attorney could send a demand letter (it wasn't an empty threat, my wife works for an attorney). An attorney will typically be willing to write a demand letter for a pretty reasonable price (they really don't even do the work themselves, they have a secretary or a paralegal - like mi sposa, write it up, and they sign it). Of course, if it's totally a bluff, you could be left holding the bag, finanically and pride-wise, but in my case, it got their attention. He (the Honda rep) asked if he could present it to his supervisor again. He then called me back the next day, and apologized, and said that he had been to short, and was working on seeing if he could resolve it. Three days later, (the amount of time he asked for) he called back and asked me to send photos. I did, and he almost immediately called back and said it would be covered. I think the key is persistence more than anything else.

Thats a bit surprising to me. I've worked in dealerships and specifically in warranty departments. Every manufacturer I have worked with would go into almost total lockdown as soon as a customer said anything about lawyers. In fact, I was instructed to politely end the conversation and forward all notes to the legal department in these cases. Maybe, the Honda rep did that and was just following the instructions from Hondas lawyers. I guess all that matters is that your issue was resolved, and yes, persistence is key.

[hparsons]

Thats a bit surprising to me. I've worked in dealerships and specifically in warranty departments. Every manufacturer I have worked with would go into almost total lockdown as soon as a customer said anything about lawyers. In fact, I was instructed to politely end the conversation and forward all notes to the legal department in these cases. Maybe, the Honda rep did that and was just following the instructions from Hondas lawyers. I guess all that matters is that your issue was resolved, and yes, persistence is key.

I understand, and I worked in retail for many years, and when I worked for big chains, management was typically instructed that if a customer brings up a lawyer, they are directed to the legal team (which is why I said earlier he should not use this as a "bluff".)

I brought my wife's boss into this when the rep said that they would not provide anything in writing. Personally, it's sounding like this is a planned ruse by Honda (since I experienced it personally, and now hear of another person having the same problem).

Honda gives a written warranty. If refusal of a warranty is legitimate, those refusing should have no problem putting the reason in writing. If they refuse to do so, what is the customer to do? At that point, the rep is leaving the customer no choice but to turn to legal help.

I guess my question to you (and I really am curious) have you ever refused a warranty, been asked for the refusal to be put in writing, and then refused to do that?

[jmohme]

I understand, and I worked in retail for many years, and when I worked for big chains, management was typically instructed that if a customer brings up a lawyer, they are directed to the legal team (which is why I said earlier he should not use this as a "bluff".) I brought my wife's boss into this when the rep said that they would not provide anything in writing. Personally, it's sounding like this is a planned ruse by Honda (since I experienced it personally, and now hear of another person having the same problem). Honda gives a written warranty. If refusal of a warranty is legitimate, those refusing should have no problem putting the reason in writing. If they refuse to do so, what is the customer to do? At that point, the rep is leaving the customer no choice but to turn to legal help. I guess my question to you (and I really am curious) have you ever refused a warranty, been asked for the refusal to be put in writing, and then refused to do that?

Yes I have had it denied warranty claims but the customer did not have to ask for a reason in weighting because I was required ti provide them with that at the claim was denied. It really sounds to me like Honda has some reps that are more interested in making their numbers look good than they are in taking care of the customers that keep them in a job!

[hparsons]

Yes I have had it denied warranty claims but the customer did not have to ask for a reason in weighting because I was required ti provide them with that at the claim was denied. It really sounds to me like Honda has some reps that are more interested in making their numbers look good than they are in taking care of the customers that keep them in a job!

Exactly. My opinion (and this isn't advice, just my opinion). The "We can't put it in writing" is a bluff. Someone who purchases a $20k-$35k that has a written warranty should be able to get a written reason why, if the warranty is not being honored. If some rep is saying "we can't provide it in writing", then there's a reason, and you can bet that the reason has nothing to do with a legitimate reason.

[Rick Mays]

A lot of people think there's nothing between not involving an attorney, and a full blown lawsuit. I was in much the same situation as you (involving the hinge problem). I was really prepared to just bit the bullet and buy the part and fix it myself, but the Honda rep ticked me off with his nonsense. I finally was mad enough that I demanded they send me an explanation, in writing, as to why my bike wasn't being covered under warranty. He said they have no such mechanism, and I asked for an address so my attorney could send a demand letter (it wasn't an empty threat, my wife works for an attorney). An attorney will typically be willing to write a demand letter for a pretty reasonable price (they really don't even do the work themselves, they have a secretary or a paralegal - like mi sposa, write it up, and they sign it). Of course, if it's totally a bluff, you could be left holding the bag, finanically and pride-wise, but in my case, it got their attention.

He (the Honda rep) asked if he could present it to his supervisor again. He then called me back the next day, and apologized, and said that he had been to short, and was working on seeing if he could resolve it. Three days later, (the amount of time he asked for) he called back and asked me to send photos. I did, and he almost immediately called back and said it would be covered.

I think the key is persistence more than anything else.

Good write. I have seen this very situation arise at a local Honda Dealership. The actual Service Manager told the customer to do what hparsons quoted, and it got results.

[Cruiseman]

There might be someone at your state's Atty Gen office that deals with these complaints.

[jmohme]

I just can't believe that Honda puts up with this kind of thing. I know that Mack Trucks would go after dealerships that pulled this kind of crap, and to have a Honda rep doing this just blows my mind!
It has been a few years since I was in the business, but back then, Mack Trucks would even do random warranty audits looking for these type of things. Or district service rep would even look at non warranty repairs to make sure that we weren't jacking up the labor over the warranty rate for customer pay repairs.
I guess

[CAC]

Hparsons,
The number you provided is the same # I've been calling. Same answer each time, they WIll Not over ride the reps decision, they WILL NOT put it in writing, they Will Not give me his contact information. At this point I have two dealers that say they left messages for him to call. The mileage statement is only hear say and can never be proven. I am 100% sure that the service rep did not go to bat for me and that may be where the problem started. Long story short, I temporarily fixed my hinge with some rivots and JB weld to keep me on the road. I went to the dealer and they were short handed and the service counter guy was actually working in the shop. They were busy and I cornered the owner in the parking lot and showed him my issues. When I knocked the left speaker with my hand and it went flying across the ground he told me that there were tabs missing off the cover and that someone pulled it off incorrectly. By looking at the slots I had to agree. He said they would not be covered under warranty but he couldn't see why the trunk hinge wouldn't be, but the service counter guy was too busy to deal with it. I said that i couldn't go without them being fixed and to go ahead and order the parts. It took 3 or 4 days for the parts to come in, (different counter and Dept). When i was sure the parts were in I scheduled a day to get them installed confident it would be covered. In the interim i went back to the only shop that would have removed the covers and told the mechanic about how he damaged the covers. He said that there were not any tabs on those and that the other guy was full of crap. I showed him the slots and he said he didn't care they are not to have tabs on them. Ok, I went to the shop and sure enough the new ones did not have any tabs. Now its time to go to the service counter for my 1:00 pm install appointment. Told them who I was and that I was here for it. After some fumbling on the computer he asks for all my info again and then asks what I was getting done, I repeated it again. He then asked me if I had the hinge and speaker covers. He could tell I was getting a little disgusted as I took too steps back and said listen, you guys ordered the parts and scheduled the install I'm not sure what else I can tell you. (It had been going on for a bit) so we got that all handled and then I explainded the speaker situation where his boss told me that someone took them off wrong and that he was mistaken because my new ones are identical to my old ones ( I had been to parts ahead of time to curb my curiosity and knew it). So he's working and says they probably won't cover it since someone took them off wrong. I said they did not. He said well you just told me they did. Now this is where I probably lost any chance of help from him. Yes I had become a tad angry, and said I don't know what's going on here, but you need to pay attention to what I'm saying and explained it again. At that point I'm not sure he heard anything I said and do not believe even now he understands. While my bike was being worked on I talked with him and apologized for seeming mad and that we were having a failure to communicate. While he seemed fine, I'm sure he didn't try to help me. But you just couldn't talk to the guy!

[CAC]

UPDATE, I just got a call from the dealer and they are going to cover both speaker covers (armrests) and one hinge. I had them replace both because it made no sense to have one tight new hinge and one sloppy old. So it looks like all is good! thanks for the suggestions and help from all. I can feel my blood pressure dropping! LOL.

EDIT: Steve Seltzer the owner of Seltzers Honda just north of Altoona apparently had a long talk with them today, (or there were enough calls from me that they called him), regardless of that, during this whole process Steve always returned my calls and was very professional and I have to give Kudos to him. He put me through to the service guy and we are all good there also.

[hparsons]

UPDATE, I just got a call from the dealer and they are going to cover both speaker covers (armrests) and one hinge. I had them replace both because it made no sense to have one tight new hinge and one sloppy old. So it looks like all is good! thanks for the suggestions and help from all. I can feel my blood pressure dropping! LOL.

EDIT: Steve Seltzer the owner of Seltzers Honda just north of Altoona apparently had a long talk with them today, (or there were enough calls from me that they called him), regardless of that during this whole process Steve always returned my calls and was very professional and I have to give Kudos to him. He put me through to the service guy and we are all good there also.

Glad it worked out for you!!! Persistence sounds like one of the keys to it.

I have no real reason to believe anyone from Mother Honda is reading this, but just in case - People, this is no way to run a service department. If someone has to get on a public forum and complain to get you to honor your promises, you have lost the battle.

[CAC]

Glad it worked out for you!!! Persistence sounds like one of the keys to it.

I have no real reason to believe anyone from Mother Honda is reading this, but just in case - People, this is no way to run a service department. If someone has to get on a public forum and complain to get you to honor your promises, you have lost the battle.

You have to wonder how much money is saved / made off of people who just don't push it.

[TravelinLite]

Glad you got it addressed CAC.

[hparsons]

You have to wonder how much money is saved / made off of people who just don't push it.

I suspect they believe they save a lot. I don't agree though. Unfortunately, there's no real way to measure it; but I believe an organization lives and dies by its reputation. The bean counters may be able to look back and say "we successfully denied 1000 claims for every 1 we had to back down and honor", and think they're saving money; but they have no way of measuring how many people read something like this that were trying to decide which new brand to buy, or whether or not to trade in the 8 year old Goldwing for a new one, or were considering buying the extended warranty and instead decide to pass, since even the original warranty isn't being honored.

I was taught in the retail business that for every customer that complained, there were at least a 100 more with the same or similar problem, that simply chose to shop elsewhere because of their experience. Companies pay too much money to present an "image" through advertising for me to believe that denying legitimate warranties are a smart way to go.