Fuel injector ?

[Lone Ranger]

Is this possible with the Wing? When I had my Buick GN we, the owners, would swap out the OEM injectors for larger injectors. At first we started with 10% over OEM which was a Ford injector, then went to whatever we could find, but that lead to new proms, drivers for the ECM and other ECM setups. GN could handle the extra 10% without prom programming or drivers for the ECM. I'd be happy with 10% more flow. I suspect the Wing could also handle the 10% without any additional ECM work.

[pearlblue1800]

What are you trying to achieve?

[satan]

What are you trying to achieve?

Outside of closed loop operation a higher flow rate injector will richen the fuel mixtures. Also, as Lone Ranger alludes, if the replacement injectors aren't too fat, then closed loop operation is largely unaffected since the ECU will simply shorten the injection pulse. Simple injector swaps can be a boon if your OEM setup tends to lean-out at WOT, and/or wants for fuel on cold starts (prior to entering closed loop) as would be typical with intake and/or cam modifications.

In the specific application mentioned, the GN tended to lean a bit at higher RPMs and the OEM injector was a single pintle design. Changing to the Ford 19# injectors would help with flow rates, and if you opted for the the Ford HO/Mustang injectors, you also got the advantage of a multiple pintle design, which greatly improved fuel atomization as well. This is also a good swap on the early FI Jeep/AMC 4.0L

I haven't had time to log my 1800 yet, so I'm uncertain if it's leaning-out when running open loop, or otherwise running long injector duty cycles ... Based solely on the availability of a Bazzaz injection pulse modifying kit (they bill it as an ECM, but it cannot affect timing in their kit for the GL1800), I'm assuming that our OEM injectors are not running wide-open yet.

Of course, if, like the GN and Jeep mods of yore, we can get some decent cams to draw more air into these bikes (perhaps with a little less reversion cover lap pleas God), then I'll start digging deeper for fatter injectors to match. (taller/longer cams & fatter injectors...)

[2012_Blue_Lvl3]

As Satan mentioned. As long as the stock GL1800 aren't maxing out their duty cycle/flow rate than you wont net any gain. At normal running RPM's the ECM will shorten the pulse rates to bring the AFR back in line with specifications.

[srt8-in-largo]

More fuel doesn't make more power. More fuel plus more AIR does, however. But with no tuning ability, you're just fartin' in the wind.

[Lone Ranger]

Want to fatten at the top end to prevent denotation. Without an OBD to monitor, as I had with the GN, I don't know what my limits are concerning pinging. I don't want to hear the darn engine ping and so for a few dollars I would not mind installing fatter injectors. I got a heavy foot, mean wrist. When I first got the bike, '03, I raised the question, on another board, about freeing up the exhaust and taking off the CAT. I was toward it was a waste of time and wouldn't do anything. Now people rave about the Torq Master Torque Loop.

[Biker John]

I have to ask, where are you going to get these bigger injectors?

[satan]

For me, I'd ship em off to get resized & matched... Saves a boatload of cash & assures equal flow rates much better than "luck of the draw" replacements. The added bonus would be to see if the resizing shop were familiar with some OEM application that uses the target flow rate.. (we share the same injectors as the 600 Silverwing scooter; it'd stand to reason that rail bore / pintle / length appear in other Honda/Accura applications)

I'd offer that the Bosch EV14 universal injector is used enough in production (in a 40mm length) to find what you'd want in a junkyard, but someone would have to dig for a cross reference. The toughest bit will be to match the kinda tiny flow rate (both the Silverwing and our GLs use these as one injector per 300cc displacement so an automotive application for 110% flow could be a 2liter 6cyl tough to find; hence my though to resize & match flow the existing).

A cheaper solution (looking still for the problem, IMHO) could be to replace the fuel pressure regulator (& or pump - Airtex has a few that will blow more than 50psi to the rail) allowing for a little fattening without other control... Similar to what we did back in the first few years of the 1800s

[Lone Ranger]

For me, I'd ship em off to get resized & matched... Saves a boatload of cash & assures equal flow rates much better than "luck of the draw" replacements. The added bonus would be to see if the resizing shop were familiar with some OEM application that uses the target flow rate.. (we share the same injectors as the 600 Silverwing scooter; it'd stand to reason that rail bore / pintle / length appear in other Honda/Accura applications)

I'd offer that the Bosch EV14 universal injector is used enough in production (in a 40mm length) to find what you'd want in a junkyard, but someone would have to dig for a cross reference. The toughest bit will be to match the kinda tiny flow rate (both the Silverwing and our GLs use these as one injector per 300cc displacement so an automotive application for 110% flow could be a 2liter 6cyl tough to find; hence my though to resize & match flow the existing).

A cheaper solution (looking still for the problem, IMHO) could be to replace the fuel pressure regulator (& or pump - Airtex has a few that will blow more than 50psi to the rail) allowing for a little fattening without other control... Similar to what we did back in the first few years of the 1800s

Thanks for info. Trying to track down people that use to flow injectors for the GN.

[satan]

www.rceng.com and/or fuelinjectorconnection.com may be good first contact, if you don't start with someone you know already.

[Spencer]

You may want to contact George Parker, the designer and builder of the Turbo GL1800 ( [email protected] )
He has the injector flow numbers and did not see a need for replacement ....

This is his company and alternate contact :

[email protected]

www.fuelvaporcar.com

.

[Lone Ranger]

You may want to contact George Parker, the designer and builder of the Turbo GL1800 ( [email protected] )
He has the injector flow numbers and did not see a need for replacement ....

This is his company and alternate contact :

[email protected]

www.fuelvaporcar.com

.

He still up and running? The website dedicated to the bike was up and then went down I believe to no interest. Thanks for the info.

[Spencer]

He and his bike is, but he is now concentrating on his fuel vapor car ....

There is a second complete system (not currently installed) in FL that I underatand is for sale but marketing of the kit was never his priority and deemed not practical given the cost.

.

[gnrand]

I too had a race 8 sec race GN and did a bunch of injector changes along with an XFI ECM (ended up with 160 lb injectors running 116 octane VP fuel). Chuck Leeper can help you with cleaning and flow calibration of the injectors. Very reasonable price.
[email protected]

[Haste Maker]

"Buick GN"...what a great car, I would still have mine IF it had not gotten stolen & wrapped around a telephone pole in Atlanta..

[srt8-in-largo]

Want to fatten at the top end to prevent denotation. Without an OBD to monitor, as I had with the GN, I don't know what my limits are concerning pinging. I don't want to hear the darn engine ping and so for a few dollars I would not mind installing fatter injectors. I got a heavy foot, mean wrist. When I first got the bike, '03, I raised the question, on another board, about freeing up the exhaust and taking off the CAT. I was toward it was a waste of time and wouldn't do anything. Now people rave about the Torq Master Torque Loop.

What are you doing that's causing detonation? I'd suggest jumping up to 89 octane before running bigger injectors without a tune adjustment. Even with the ability to tune, bigger injectors than needed could create driveability issues. You may be trading one problem for a couple of others.

[Lone Ranger]

What are you doing that's causing detonation? I'd suggest jumping up to 89 octane before running bigger injectors without a tune adjustment. Even with the ability to tune, bigger injectors than needed could create driveability issues. You may be trading one problem for a couple of others.

I want to prevent detonation before it happens. There is a OEM knock sensors on the bike now. If it works properly it retards timing. I don't want to reach that point. But yes going to 89 is a good idea. Now you've given me an idea, a knock sensor light on the dash. Got to figure out how to hook that up.