U.S. Army sued for discrimination

[pearlblue1800]

This law suit is based upon Religious Discrimination.
Since there are already certain religious exemtions permited, ammendments to dress codes and grooming standards. It may be reasonable to state that there will be another policy amendment with regards to religion in order to permit this citizen serve his country.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/justice/sikh-student-sues-u-s-army/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[wingleader09]

Suing the military is nothing new. In another recent case, an atheist sued the Navy because he wanted to become a Chaplain. I think they are just looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

[Jack]

What is reasonable used to be common sense. Sense is no longer common.

[Lone Ranger]

There comes a time when uniform standards have to be adhered to. A beard is not a hindrance to wearing helmet. A turban is a hindrance to wearing a helmet. PC has its limits.

[wingleader09]

There comes a time when uniform standards have to be adhered to. A beard is not a hindrance to wearing helmet. A turban is a hindrance to wearing a helmet. PC has its limits.

But a beard is a hindrance to wearing a gas mask. They will not seal properly thus possibly exposing the wearer to nuclear, biological or chemical agents.

[Lone Ranger]

But a beard is a hindrance to wearing a gas mask. They will not seal properly thus possibly exposing the wearer to nuclear, biological or chemical agents.

That is true. Forgot about that.
Maybe women wearing this should be allowed in the military, on fire departments and police departments?

Hell everyone can dress the way they want. Open borders, no rules, illegals come and go as they please. Who needs rules in the U.S. I'm sure Canada allows for beards and turbans to be worn by its service personnel.

[HBarlow]

An easy solution for the muslim demanding to be allowed to wear his raghead and scruffy beard in the US Army would be use of the standard muslim method of problem solving.

Simply behead him then no more concerns about wear of proper military head gear, gas masks, or oxygen breathing masks.

[wingleader09]

An easy solution for the muslim demanding to be allowed to wear his raghead and scruffy beard in the US Army would be use of the standard muslim method of problem solving.

Simply behead him then no more concerns about wear of proper military head gear, gas masks, or oxygen breathing masks.

I would have thought better of you HB. That young man is NOT a Muslim, he is a Sikh. BIG difference! You really should read up on those differences. Ignorance of those two completely different religions has caused attacks and hate crimes against them for being mistaken as Muslims. Islam is a religion that originated in Arabic speaking countries and Sikhism is a religion that originated in India. Just because someone wears a Dastaar (turban) and a beard does not make them a Muslim.

[micky]

why confuse anyone with the truth or facts, it's outlawed here

[hparsons]

"Outlawed"??? Outlawed by whom? Looks to me like a mistruth was almost immediately corrected, and ... wow ... the correction didn't get deleted.

Some people excuse "freedom of expression" with "freedom to express only that with which I agree"...

[Wing_it]

This law suit is based upon Religious Discrimination.
Since there are already certain religious exemtions permited, ammendments to dress codes and grooming standards. It may be reasonable to state that there will be another policy amendment with regards to religion in order to permit this citizen serve his country.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/justic...html?hpt=hp_t2

Disregarding the puerile motives of pearlblue's post the Sikh's have had a long and honorable existence in the U S military wearing beards and turdans through religious exemptions until the mid 1980's when uniform and rule changes (including new rule's of beard wear) did complicate Sikh service in the military.

America is not alone though in balancing freedoms of religion. Canada, even with its extensive non-discrimination laws, has had its struggles with its laws and traditions. The RCMP banded turban wear and only after years of struggle against the RCMP and much of the Canadian population did they win the religious exemption in 1990 to wear turbans in the service of the RCMP.

The struggles continued through the years in the schools and sport organizations with Canadian soccer players only winning the ban of turban wear in competition last year.

Indeed globalization comes with growing pains but hopefully part of that will indeed bring a greater knowledge and understanding for the Sikh people and their beliefs. Well said wingleader09, wearing a turban does not a Muslim make. Sikhism and Islam are worlds apart.

[on the road]

An easy solution for the muslim demanding to be allowed to wear his raghead and scruffy beard in the US Army would be use of the standard muslim method of problem solving.

Simply behead him then no more concerns about wear of proper military head gear, gas masks, or oxygen breathing masks.

Yep, There's nothing quite as ridiculous as seeing people of faith wear goofy looking s**t on their heads.

[TravelinLite]

Disregarding the puerile motives of pearlblue's post the Sikh's have had a long and honorable existence in the U S military wearing beards and turdans through religious exemptions until the mid 1980's when uniform and rule changes (including new rule's of beard wear) did complicate Sikh service in the military....

I think you need to recheck the dates. I was in the U.S. Army from in the early 1970s and beards were not permitted in any Army unit I trained with and none of the Air Force, Marine or Navy soldiers I trained with were permitted to have facial hair or wear any headdress that wasn't Govt. issued. They would have died during the times protective gear (from radiological /biological agents) was required.

[HBarlow]

I don't care what he is - sikh or muslim. He's still a raghead to me.

If he wants to join the US Army he can comply with the Uniform Code of Military Justice and US Army Regulations, complete the application, meet all the requirements, and then perhaps the Army will accept him. (I hope not) The US Army didn't ask to join him.

[TravelinLite]

...That young man is NOT a Muslim, he is a Sikh. BIG difference! You really should read up on those differences. Ignorance of those two completely different religions has caused attacks and hate crimes against them for being mistaken as Muslims. Islam is a religion that originated in Arabic speaking countries and Sikhism is a religion that originated in India. Just because someone wears a Dastaar (turban) does not make them a Muslim.

I didn't know these things. Of course it wouldn't matter to me anyway so long as they are not trouble makers...heaven knows we have our share of those already.

[Wing_it]

I think you need to recheck the dates. I was in the U.S. Army from in the early 1970s and beards were not permitted in any Army unit I trained with and none of the Air Force, Marine or Navy solders I trained with were permitted to have facial hair or wear any headdress that wasn't Govt. issued. They would have died during the times protective gear (from radiological /biological agents) was required.

Considering the size and magnitude of the U S military I too was not aware that yes indeed Sikhs have served during the seventies and serve today, wearing the articles of faith turban and beard by religious exemption, in our military. One oddity, in reference to protective gear, is Sergeant Kirinbir Grewal:

Sergeant Kirinbir Grewal served in the U.S. Army from 1977-1984. He entered the Army as a Private and left at the E6 level as a Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Non-Commissioned Officer (Staff Sergeant). During his tenure, his Sikh articles of faith were never an issue. While in Germany, he taught companies how to survive nuclear and biological warfare attacks using protective gear.

As to other Sikhs in our military serving from mid-seventies till present day, read here about the services of three Colonels, two Majors, two Sergeants and a Captain among others:

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/army-campaign/sikhs-in-the-us-army/

According to www.army.mil From 1948 to 1984, men of the Sikh religion were permitted to serve while maintaining their articles of faith. In 1984, Gen. John A. Wickham Jr., then Chief of Staff of the Army, eliminated the exception for Sikhs and others who wore "conspicuous" items of faith. Sikhs who were previously serving on active duty were grandfathered in by the Army. Two Sikhs in the medical field, Col. Arjinderpal Singh Sekhon, a doctor, and Col. G.B. Singh, a dentist, continued to serve until their retirements in 2009 and 2007, respectively.

Then, in March 2010 for the first time in 23 years, the U.S. Army is allowing a pair of Sikh Soldiers to keep their hair and beard intact and wear a turban. Read more here: http://www.army.mil/article/36339/sikh-soldiers-allowed-to-serve-retain-their-articles-of-faith

[Wing_it]

I don't care what he is - sikh or muslim. He's still a raghead to me.

If he wants to join the US Army he can comply with the Uniform Code of Military Justice and US Army Regulations, complete the application, meet all the requirements, and then perhaps the Army will accept him. (I hope not) The US Army didn't ask to join him.

Seems the army did ask at least one to join back in 2009: NEW YORK: Twenty six year old Simran Preet Singh Lamba became the first enlisted Sikh soldier in the US army in more two decades to complete basic training without shedding his turban and other articles of faith.

Recruited by the Army in 2009 through the Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest (MAVNI) programme for his language skills in Punjabi and Hindi, Lamba completed basic training with his turban and unshorn hair at Fort Jackson outside Columbia and became a US citizen.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/sikh-soldier-completes-us-army-training-with-turban-on-65640

[Wing_it]

Yep, There's nothing quite as ridiculous as seeing people of faith wear goofy looking s**t on their heads.

While often lacking in objectiveness your quick wit and dry humor is still at times good for a chuckle kg. Had to laugh a little at that in spite of myself

[TravelinLite]

Very interesting Wing_it. More things I didn't know. As I understand it there have been quite a few foreign soldiers who have died (presumably) because their gas mask didn't seal properly around the beard. Apparently there is method/procedure for wearing a mask on an unshaven face. I tell you though, with some of the nasty toxins that are out their, one would have to have one hell of a lot of faith to trust that mask sealing over the beard.

[on the road]

While often lacking in objectiveness your quick wit and dry humor is still at times good for a chuckle kg. Had to laugh a little at that in spite of myself

Sometimes you need to point out the hypocrisy of those who represent themselves as Christian.....but are nothing more than hate filled CINO's.
Present company most certainly excluded.

[Wing_it]

Very interesting Wing_it. More things I didn't know. As I understand it there have been quite a few foreign soldiers who have died (presumably) because their gas mask didn't seal properly around the beard. Apparently there is method/procedure for wearing a mask on an unshaven face. I tell you though, with some of the nasty toxins that are out their, one would have to have one hell of a lot of faith to trust that mask sealing over the beard.

Much of this I didn't know either so it's been quite informative. What I did gather was that there was a length limit on beards which would, with Vasilene, on short beards help create a good seal.

Years ago, on different trips to the Carribean, there was a dive master who had a short beard and with Vasilene kept a good seal on his dive mask down to 80 feet.

[Lone Ranger]

Sometimes you need to point out the hypocrisy of those who represent themselves as Christian..... .

Unlike yourself a liberal Christian who supports 'faith in action for social justice'.