Who creates American jobs?

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  • Who creates American jobs?

    This is a bit long, but well worth the effort. I am surprised Forbes actually 'sees the light.'

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveden...nel=Leadership

    Joe T.

  • #2
    That article seems confused or deliberately confusing to me. I don't necessarily disagree but what was the point of the article?

    The article changed the subject from hag clinton's stupid lie, which she knew was a lie when she said it, to an argument whether large or small business creates jobs. All private businesses create jobs during good economic times. In the current declining communist administration no smart big business is going to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in new products, new methods, new infrastructure, or new hiring because the economy has been in the tank since the communist party took control of the house and senate in January 2007. Sales and profits are down and have been down for eight years. Companies don't invest in growth when sales and profits are down. They are trying to survive the communists.

    Capitalism creates jobs. The private sector using investment capital builds factories or offices, hires labor to manufacture products or provide services. This private sector capitalism provides jobs.

    The current administration with their reckless government spending, high taxes, excessive regulation, threats to businesses, and the stupid nobama/nocare healthcare plan has killed jobs. Many jobs losses are permanent and will never come back.
    Harvey Barlow
    Crosby County, TX
    2010 Goldwing Level II Pearl Yellow (sold at 93,000 miles)
    2014 Goldwing Level II Pearl Blue (sold at 27,000 miles to forum member)

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    • #3
      It's not just this administration. Sure, it is on steroids, but every administration in my lifetime has sought to expand the reach of government. Companies and individuals are fleeing the USA because it has become too costly to do business here. So much so that they are passing laws to make it illegal. You want to leave the USA? Fine, but you leave your money behind. Actually, they consider it to be THEIR money, not yours.
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      • #4
        Number 1 I love this country would not want to live any where else. That said our gov. owns everything. You may buy it but if you don't pay taxes on it every year they can and will take it. Then again even if you have paid your taxes they can take it if they decide they can make better use of it,

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        • #5
          Ultimately, consumers create jobs. Without an end consumer there is no need for a product or for someone to manufacture that product.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fatgrouchyguy View Post
            Ultimately, consumers create jobs. Without an end consumer there is no need for a product or for someone to manufacture that product.
            In other words, boosting the buying power of the lower and middle class will drive demand and thereby cause businesses to hire more people to satisfy the demand.

            Giving tax breaks to the rich does not create jobs.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SteelTraveler View Post

              In other words, boosting the buying power of the lower and middle class will drive demand and thereby cause businesses to hire more people to satisfy the demand.

              Giving tax breaks to the rich does not create jobs.
              Those are your other words, not mine. You want to make a statement then clearly make a statement but do not drag me into it.

              Consumers can be individuals, or other industries, or entire nations.

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              • #8
                You labor union members who think consumers create jobs clearly know nothing about business.

                Does a consumer let the contracts to build the factory building? Does the consumer lay out the cash to buy the land and pay the contractors to build the factory? Does the consumer lay out the assembly lines? Buy the raw materials? Design and plan the product? Screen and hire the employees? Sign their paychecks? Nope.

                Of course consumers can create additional demand once the Republican capitalist(s) do all the above and make the product available but if the capitalist doesn't have the idea and the courage to bet everything he owns and can borrow to create the product no consumers will hire you labor union workers to operate the machines.

                Did ordinary American farmers and shop keepers demand that Henry Ford build Model Ts? Did they build Henry's factories? Design his cars? Dream up the assembly lines?

                No, they didn't. Henry Ford was a brilliant self-educated engineer and capitalist who did it all himself and took the risk because he believed that people would buy his cars if he built them.
                Harvey Barlow
                Crosby County, TX
                2010 Goldwing Level II Pearl Yellow (sold at 93,000 miles)
                2014 Goldwing Level II Pearl Blue (sold at 27,000 miles to forum member)

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                • #9
                  You nailed it Barlow. Consumers create the demand, not the jobs.

                  Were the way they describe even remotely close to reality, I would have "created" a whole harem of beautiful women when I was a teen.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SteelTraveler View Post

                    In other words, boosting the buying power of the lower and middle class will drive demand and thereby cause businesses to hire more people to satisfy the demand.

                    Giving tax breaks to the rich does not create jobs.
                    As a matter of fact tax cuts do directly create jobs. You can't read about it and understand it down at the union hall but it works everytime it has been tried.

                    Here's an example or two. Some years ago the dumocraps decided to punish the rich by imposing a big luxury tax on luxury yachts. Those of us who understand the country we live in knew immediately what would happen but the dumocraps cheered the new tax as "fair" and "paying their fair share." You know, the usual tired rhetoric of the left.

                    What was the result? The rich who are rich because they're smart quit buying American-built yachts. They bought their yachts from European builders. Wealthy scumbags like your secretary of state, Vietnam John Kerry, kept his yacht in Europe.

                    American boat building companies soon closed due to lack of demand. The company owners went broke and the laborers lost their jobs and went on unemployment and welfare.

                    If, on the other hand, the stupid dumocrap government had reduced taxes on the wealthy they would buy more yachts, airplanes, motorcycles, cars, homes, and other products. This increases demand, production, wages, and hiring. The rich own the big businesses that employ ordinary working Americans. When business leaders see a reduction in taxes on the horizon they hire workers, expand their production, build larger facilities, and increase wages in order to hire and retain skillled labor.

                    Economics is easy to understand. It is nothing more than a study of human nature. But you won't learn it at dumocrap fund raisers, dumocrap election parties, or union meetings.

                    Harvey Barlow
                    Crosby County, TX
                    2010 Goldwing Level II Pearl Yellow (sold at 93,000 miles)
                    2014 Goldwing Level II Pearl Blue (sold at 27,000 miles to forum member)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HBarlow View Post

                      As a matter of fact tax cuts do directly create jobs. You can't read about it and understand it down at the union hall but it works everytime it has been tried.

                      Here's an example or two. Some years ago the dumocraps decided to punish the rich by imposing a big luxury tax on luxury yachts. Those of us who understand the country we live in knew immediately what would happen but the dumocraps cheered the new tax as "fair" and "paying their fair share." You know, the usual tired rhetoric of the left.

                      What was the result? The rich who are rich because they're smart quit buying American-built yachts. They bought their yachts from European builders. Wealthy scumbags like your secretary of state, Vietnam John Kerry, kept his yacht in Europe.

                      American boat building companies soon closed due to lack of demand. The company owners went broke and the laborers lost their jobs and went on unemployment and welfare.

                      If, on the other hand, the stupid dumocrap government had reduced taxes on the wealthy they would buy more yachts, airplanes, motorcycles, cars, homes, and other products. This increases demand, production, wages, and hiring. The rich own the big businesses that employ ordinary working Americans. When business leaders see a reduction in taxes on the horizon they hire workers, expand their production, build larger facilities, and increase wages in order to hire and retain skillled labor.

                      Economics is easy to understand. It is nothing more than a study of human nature. But you won't learn it at dumocrap fund raisers, dumocrap election parties, or union meetings.
                      Anyone who has ever studied economics knows it is true that tax cuts do indeed direct create jobs. Unfortunately too many people want to believe the rhetoric because it sounds good. Hey, what's better than a little class warfare, right?
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hparsons View Post
                        You nailed it Barlow. Consumers create the demand, not the jobs.

                        Were the way they describe to even remotely close to reality, I would have "created" a whole harem of beautiful women when I was a teen.
                        However...corporations can "create" consumers, through innovation. Nobody was a consumer of an iPhone before Apple invented it. Nobody consumed air travel until after the Wright brothers endeavor. For thousands of years, nobody consumed the Internet because it did not exist. When you create a market, you create consumers and you create jobs.

                        Boosting consumer's buying ability (e.g. raising the minimum wage) does not grow the economy, it only re-distributes. The only thing that truly "grows" the economy, and creates jobs in a free market is innovation.

                        And, while on the subject of minimum wage. Any talk of raising the minimum wage is admission of failed economic policy. The best way to raise people's income is to expand and grow the economy. They don't need a new minimum wage law in Midland, Texas. They are having trouble hiring new Dominos pizza drivers at $15 an hour PLUS tips. Why? A booming local economy. There is no reason that model cannot work nationwide. The liberal policies have brought millions of low-wage and low-skilled workers into the USA which has driven down the wage scale. A minimum wage increase is politically convenient, but it will NOT have any positive impact on the economy. It WILL cause everyone else's prices to go up, so in effect, it is like a tax increase.

                        Liberals like to blame corporations for moving their money outside of the US, but big government and politicians (both parties) are to blame for this. Corporation, like individuals, are only looking out for their self-interests. If you make it too painful (regulations) or expensive (taxes) for companies to operate in the US, guess what? They move.
                        Last edited by Cruiseman; 11-04-2014, 07:22 AM.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cruiseman View Post

                          However...corporations can "create" consumers, through innovation. Nobody was a consumer of an iPhone before Apple invented it. Nobody consumed air travel until after the Wright brothers endeavor. For thousands of years, nobody consumed the Internet because it did not exist. When you create a market, you create consumers and you create jobs...
                          Exactly. I was thinking about this last night. Some of the biggest job creators did not wait for demand to drive what they built (and which brought jobs in the process); the dreamed up something they believed would be wanted, and then built those items.

                          I was around during the infancy of the new computer/smartphone rise. There was no real "demand" for PCs when I bought my first, and I certainly had no budgeted plans to get one (and the government definitely did not provide me "pocket money" to go buy one).

                          I saw something new that looked to be of interest. I worked hard, picked up a few extra jobs here and there, and saved the money to buy one of the new gadgets. Much the same thing happened when smartphones hit the scene (though by that time, I was in a much more comfortable position to buy).

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                          • #14
                            C'mon now... all the hipster fools know that only big government spending more tax dollars creates jobs.
                            George - 2013 F6B Standard - Largo, FL

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                            • #15
                              Big business cares nothing about our economy or the lower and middle class workers, they care about themselves, just look at what one CEO makes compared to the workers in his company. Now I know the ripoffacans think big business runs the country and how dare we should tax them the same (not more) than the average Joe, but in the end the consumer 'drives' the economy. Big business can design, buy the land, build the company, but if people can't afford the product there is NO demand and the economy goes no where. That's basic economics. And what kind of Idiot thinks the Rich should have tax cuts so they can buy 'yachts,airplanes,motorcycles, cars, homes, and other products."??? Wha tmakes them so Special?? I make a decent living and our household income is well above average for the U.S.A., But I'm far from rich. If you want to make things fair give Everybody the same flat tax rate. Why should anybody get to pay less taxes because they make more money. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I voted for both parties yesterday because I want whats best for me and my country. I'm tired of all this CRAP about how the Republicans are so much better. What did your last President "W" do for us? He put us Trillions of dollars in debt. He sent our toops over to a country on the pretense of "weapons of mass destruction" ,but nothing was found and we lost THOUSANDS of countrymen in something we had No reason to be doing. "W" spent billions of dollars hiring Defense contractors like Blackwater that made Ol' Dick Cheney a multi-millionare. If you ask me any and all elected officials should be limited to one term and they shouldn't get any retirement or other lasting benefits out of their service. This country will never be "run for the people" as long as people can get elected to office and become millionares, and that goes for all parties. Thats just my 2 cents worth and if you don't like because your too rich and important, I don't really care!!!

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by showmerider View Post
                                Big business cares nothing about our economy or the lower and middle class workers, they care about themselves, just look at what one CEO makes compared to the workers in his company. Now I know the ripoffacans think big business runs the country and how dare we should tax them the same (not more) than the average Joe, but in the end the consumer 'drives' the economy. Big business can design, buy the land, build the company, but if people can't afford the product there is NO demand and the economy goes no where. That's basic economics. And what kind of Idiot thinks the Rich should have tax cuts so they can buy 'yachts,airplanes,motorcycles, cars, homes, and other products."??? Wha tmakes them so Special?? I make a decent living and our household income is well above average for the U.S.A., But I'm far from rich. If you want to make things fair give Everybody the same flat tax rate. Why should anybody get to pay less taxes because they make more money. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I voted for both parties yesterday because I want whats best for me and my country. I'm tired of all this CRAP about how the Republicans are so much better. What did your last President "W" do for us? He put us Trillions of dollars in debt. He sent our toops over to a country on the pretense of "weapons of mass destruction" ,but nothing was found and we lost THOUSANDS of countrymen in something we had No reason to be doing. "W" spent billions of dollars hiring Defense contractors like Blackwater that made Ol' Dick Cheney a multi-millionare. If you ask me any and all elected officials should be limited to one term and they shouldn't get any retirement or other lasting benefits out of their service. This country will never be "run for the people" as long as people can get elected to office and become millionares, and that goes for all parties. Thats just my 2 cents worth and if you don't like because your too rich and important, I don't really care!!!

                                That's a significant achievement. You wrote that entire long tirade without getting one single thing correct. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
                                Harvey Barlow
                                Crosby County, TX
                                2010 Goldwing Level II Pearl Yellow (sold at 93,000 miles)
                                2014 Goldwing Level II Pearl Blue (sold at 27,000 miles to forum member)

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                                • #17
                                  Please tell me one "FACT" I got wrong

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by showmerider View Post
                                    Big business cares nothing about our economy or the lower and middle class workers, they care about themselves, just look at what one CEO makes compared to the workers in his company. Now I know the ripoffacans think big business runs the country and how dare we should tax them the same (not more) than the average Joe, but in the end the consumer 'drives' the economy. Big business can design, buy the land, build the company, but if people can't afford the product there is NO demand and the economy goes no where. That's basic economics. And what kind of Idiot thinks the Rich should have tax cuts so they can buy 'yachts,airplanes,motorcycles, cars, homes, and other products."??? Wha tmakes them so Special?? I make a decent living and our household income is well above average for the U.S.A., But I'm far from rich. If you want to make things fair give Everybody the same flat tax rate. Why should anybody get to pay less taxes because they make more money. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I voted for both parties yesterday because I want whats best for me and my country. I'm tired of all this CRAP about how the Republicans are so much better. What did your last President "W" do for us? He put us Trillions of dollars in debt. He sent our toops over to a country on the pretense of "weapons of mass destruction" ,but nothing was found and we lost THOUSANDS of countrymen in something we had No reason to be doing. "W" spent billions of dollars hiring Defense contractors like Blackwater that made Ol' Dick Cheney a multi-millionare. If you ask me any and all elected officials should be limited to one term and they shouldn't get any retirement or other lasting benefits out of their service. This country will never be "run for the people" as long as people can get elected to office and become millionares, and that goes for all parties. Thats just my 2 cents worth and if you don't like because your too rich and important, I don't really care!!!
                                    I would like to respectfully disagree with some of your comments:

                                    Big business cares nothing about our economy or the lower and middle class workers, they care about themselves - Every business cares about the economy. If the economy is poor, then business is poor. You are correct when you say "they care about themselves". A good economy is in Big Business' self-interest.


                                    just look at what one CEO makes compared to the workers in his company - This is market driven. There are thousands of people who can drive a screw, but only a handful (by comparison) of people who can run a major corporation. It is very competitive and that is why they make what they make. Most CEOs of major corporations are paid by the Board of Directors. They do not simply get to decide on their salary and benefits without approval. Anyone truly concerned about workers' pay should be vehemently opposed to amnesty for illegal aliens. There are millions of unskilled workers that have poured over the borders that will take the same jobs as Americans at a much lower price. That too, is market-driven. The fewer people there are to fill jobs, the more the jobs become worth. When Walmart opens a new store, often thousands line up for the jobs. As a result, Walmart is not compelled to pay more. There is more supply (workers) than there is demand (jobs). The LAST thing America needs right now is MORE labor force. We should have a strict quota on immigration for this reason.

                                    And what kind of Idiot thinks the Rich should have tax cuts so they can buy 'yachts,airplanes,motorcycles, cars, homes, and other products."??? Simple, any idiot that works for a yacht manufacturing or sales company, employees at Cessna, Boeing, Bombardier, or any other aircraft manufacturer, any construction worker who specializes in luxury home construction, and anyone working at a luxury auto manufacturing company or auto dealership. Luxury is a market segment. Without the rich, there would be no Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln. Think of all the employees of those companies and employees of all the related dealerships that would be out of work if there was no luxury market?

                                    I make a decent living and our household income is well above average for the U.S.A., But I'm far from rich. That's what every liberal I know says, verbatim. But here's the dirty little secret. When you look at the policies of the progressives, they consider you to be rich, because they have to raise your taxes to get their policies to work. There are not enough truly rich people to pay for all the liberal spending. Be very careful with words like "rich" because everyone has their own definition of "rich". A Joe making $150,000 a year does not consider himself to be rich, but to the guy making $40,000 a year, Joe IS rich.

                                    If you want to make things fair give Everybody the same flat tax rate. - "Fair" is another deceptive word like "rich" because everyone has their own definition of what "fair" is. However, I totally agree that a flat tax of say 15% across the board, with no deductions, would be "fair", in MY view of fairness. But, thanks to special interest groups, that will never happen.

                                    I'm tired of all this CRAP about how the Republicans are so much better. Who is saying that? Not me.

                                    What did your last President "W" do for us? He put us Trillions of dollars in debt. He sent our toops over to a country on the pretense of "weapons of mass destruction" ,but nothing was found and we lost THOUSANDS of countrymen in something we had No reason to be doing. Not defending the debt increased under GW, but look at it compared to under Obama. The Iraq war was probably a mistake, but only in hindsight. Most intelligence agencies around the world suspected that Saddam either had stockpiles of WMD, or could quickly re-create them. After 9/11, the prudent thing to do to protect the country was to remove him from power. I think it is fair to put yourself in GW's head. If he decides NOT to invade Iraq (and don't forget, he gave Saddam several warnings and opportunities to step down from power so that an invasion was unneccesary), and then Saddam DOES have WMDs and DOES pass them to a terrorist group and we wake up a year later to a mushroom cloud over NYC, how is GW going to be remembered then? It was a risk he could not afford to take. That is why Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, et al. all agreed that Saddam had to go and agreed with the invasion.

                                    "W" spent billions of dollars hiring Defense contractors like Blackwater that made Ol' Dick Cheney a multi-millionare. Not sure anyone made any money on Blackwater, you may be referring to Halliburton. Little known factoid. There is no other corporation on Earth with the infrastructure capabilities of Halliburton. They have more vehicles than the US Military. They are HUGE and they have the experience to deal with infrastructure. I have heard the claims of Cheney making millions off the deal, but I have not seen any evidence. Perhaps he had Halliburton stock and perhaps the stock increased. I'm pretty sure Dick Cheney was a multi-millionaire before the Iraq war. Let's talk about how Al Gore is on the Board of all the environmental companies getting billions in government money.

                                    This country will never be "run for the people" as long as people can get elected to office and become millionares, and that goes for all parties. I do agree with that.

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                                    • #19
                                      Showmerider - you've missed the point. No one is proposing that businesses (big or small) provide jobs because of altruism. They provide jobs for the same reason (most) people take a job - because they want to make money.

                                      You also misunderstood the statement about the "yacht taxes". This was an added luxury tax (I believe it was an additional 31%, but it's been a while). That tax just about killed the industry. No one is advocating special tax breaks for the rich, the point was that too many want to tax them at a higher rate than the "average joe".

                                      Personally, I think corporate taxes are a mistake at any level. Businesses simply collect those taxes from the consumer.

                                      Finally, the tired old "blame Bush" game has pretty much run its course. He moved into the war with the approval of Congress.
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                                      • #20
                                        Cruiseman, I agree with what you said however what I asked Hbarlow was what Fact was wrong. Big busines doesn't truly care about the economy, if the whole country went back into a great depression and they could still turn a profit , do you really think they would care? I agree about thousands of people be unskilled, and I don't like/want any illegal aliens in our country. But the board of Directors are just as bad as the CEO. It's all politics, do you really think any one is actually so smart that they desrve the same pay that's equal to 200(?) employees and be honest, do you really think they even working that much? I don't. I think when it comes to big decisions they have a meeting and several people talk about it and I'm sure those people are making a few million a year too. And I don't believe they deserve it either. It's all about greed, just go back 15 years and see the comparison between CEO's and workers. You got me on the one for the rich buying yachts, etc., however my point was we shouldn't give tax breaks to the rich just so they can buy those ultra luxury items. Let's give the tax breaks to everyone so we can all afford to buy cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc. The comment about "far from rich" is'nt just from liberals, I've heard it from republicans too, it's just a matter of perspective like you stated. I just meant that I'm not up to the $250,000 tax bracket. The comment about how the republicans are so much better, well maybe you better go back and read some of the threads on this forum, it's everywhere. I plan on being on this forum for a while, so let's see what really changes since the republicans took over. I'm willing to bet there won't be any significant changes, but a whole lot of excuses. "W" and the debt he created is what Obama was left with along with a recession. Last I checked everything is looking better, the economy, unemployment rate, dollar vs. yen. The excuse of "having to go to war" because he could be a threat doesn't cut it. Why aren't we at war with N. Korea, Iran, or Russia? They have all threatened us. I was wrong and you are correct, it was Halliburton and he was some big shot in the company if I remember correctly. We can talk about Al Gore if you want , but I don't think he made his millions off a war that to, some extent, had control of how it was run. But, since you brought him up, I don't care for him either, he made his money by trying to scare people into thinking global warming was going to kill us all. Sorry I didn't break mine down as neat as yours, and I enjoy the back and forth exchanges, but when someone or several come out and try to make out like their "PARTY' is the greatest, or everything is great now because of the election, I get the feeling they really don't have a clue. By the way I'm against abortion, unless it's a health risk or was caused by rape. I'm a strong believer in gun rights. I served in the Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard, and I have two sons in the Army Reserve, one In the Army and one that was in the Marines.

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